Why Dario Amodei Might Be the 21st Century’s First Real Leader

Andrew Keen: Hello, everybody. Saturday, March 14, 2026. It's time for our Week in Tech with my friend, Keith Teare, the publisher of That Was the Week newsletter this week. Apparently, the story is AI loved and hated, which is it to be? And here's the, video that Keith made. Of course, an AI video that somehow summarizes what he says. People just listening, will have to imagine it, and we'll describe the video in a second. It's a very short video. And, Keith, that video seems to suggest you made it, of course, as that video suggests that we either love or hate AI. But judging from the video, which seemed to me to be profoundly, if that's the right word, inane, why should we love or hate AI? It just seems like bad stuff. What's what what what's there to love or hate about AI? It's like loving or hating electricity.

Keith Teare: Well, you know, we shouldn't try and justify either. It's more describing what's happening. This week in the news, there was a survey that NBC did that said that AI is less popular than the Democratic Party, which is super unpopular. And if you if you ask the average American whether they are concerned about it or, you know, optimistic about it, the vast majority are concerned, which is the opposite in China, by the way. So the the disposition is that those who use AI are talking endlessly about how amazing it is. I'm one of them because I use it and it is amazing. But those especially those who don't use it, only have bad stories about it. And that's be becoming self evident. Something like a 100 data centers that were due to be built have been canceled due to state authorities, refusing to let them go forward due to local protests. So there's a pretty substantive body of opinion which believes AI is a bad thing.

Andrew Keen: Keith, the Oscars are tomorrow. Do you think your short video is gonna be included? You're gonna you're gonna you're going down there to LA for the Oscars?

Keith Teare: You know, they'd have to have a section for very short videos.

Andrew Keen: Very short and very bad videos. And very bad. And and just to explain to people who were listening, it's a video that Keith made. Which platform, which AI platform do you use for this?

Keith Teare: I used Google's platform for this.

Andrew Keen: Oh, Google. Well, anyway, he used Google's platform to show a woman walking with the music. And then on the one side, there are all these people who love her. And on the other side, there are people hating her. The theme of loved and hated, you develop in, in the editorial. It's very much based on, a Rex Woodbury, piece that you you like him. Woodbury has his own, digital native, post suggesting, why does everybody hate AI? And it seems to me, the more I think about it, is that nobody loves or hates AI. It's all symbolic. It's either maybe people love or hate the future or the past or the idea of progress, but it's not really AI that people are loving or hating, is it?

Keith Teare: No. I think it actually is. I mean, if you if you take this concept of AI slop, most people who don't use use AI only see it as receivers of content.

Andrew Keen: And your and just to explain slop, I mean, your video was quintessential video slop, wasn't it? For better or worse.

Keith Teare: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's,

Andrew Keen: You're a sloppy man, Keith.

Keith Teare: It's a representation of of the, you know, the editorial's content, so it's fine for me. But, yeah, it's, it's not gonna win any awards, Andrew. You're quite right. But a the concept of AI slop exists because most people's experience of AI is receivers of content from it that isn't very good. And, very few people are using it to produce outcomes that make their life better. And and I,

Andrew Keen: I actually disagree, and I think you would disagree, Keith, on this. You you you note in your editorial in fact, this is the first line. Close to a billion people used chat GPT last week. So, I mean, maybe not all those not all those billion people have created masterpieces, but they're not all creating slop. They're all getting some value out of that, presumably. Otherwise, they wouldn't be using it.

Keith Teare: Yeah. I don't think those people are the haters. I think it's the people not using it.

Andrew Keen: Said there's a that's a billion people. That's a lot of people.

Keith Teare: Yeah. But they're using it. That's not the haters. The haters are the people not using it. Just just experiencing it as receivers.

Andrew Keen: And so the other how many people are there in the world? Seven, eight billion?

Keith Teare: Yes.

Andrew Keen: Presumably, some of those aren't in this. So what are we talking about? Three or 4,000,000,000 people who are the haters?

Keith Teare: In in America, it's about 60 to 70% don't like AI. According to the NBC poll, who knows, but according to that poll.

Andrew Keen: Yeah. But do you Keith, you're you're you're a sophisticated man. Do you take polls seriously? When someone says to somebody, do you like AI, what are they really asking?

Keith Teare: The the the the I mean, you know, people are not that deep. They're just answering the question as it's received. Do you like AI?

Andrew Keen: I'm giving you the softball of softballs, balls, Keith. I'm being unusually friendly to your position this week. You you the right response or the key tier response should be, they don't believe in progress.

Keith Teare: No. I I don't I don't agree with that. That's like saying people who voted for Trump don't believe in progress. I I I think progress is universal. It's just that you define it differently. And, you know, we live in times when

Andrew Keen: Well, maybe technological let let's leave Trump out of it because that only creates more confusion. When you ask someone, do you I don't know whether it's and it depends how you do you like AI? Do you believe in AI? Do you use AI? It's rather like saying, do you believe in technological progress, isn't it?

Keith Teare: I think they correlate at this moment in history. You know, it used to be in in the nineties. Do you like the Internet? A lot of people said no. A lot of people.

Andrew Keen: Or they're back in the nineties. No one quite knew. I mean, I think people have a better idea today of what AI is than the Internet in the nineties, don't they?

Keith Teare: Yeah. I think they do. But I it's it's clear that the curve of acceptance on almost any technology starts slow. I mean, you know, there's that very familiar early adopters, the middle group, and then the late adopters curve that seems to apply to almost everything, even electricity or cars. Historically, it's always like that. So I guess we shouldn't be very surprised. But, at the same time, I think it is incumbent on the AI companies to appreciate how, isolated they are from mainstream opinion. And, you know, when when the two leading CEOs are acting, as he said last week, like spoiled children in the playground, it doesn't help their case.

Andrew Keen: Well, I would actually disagree. When I was preparing this, I actually think they're not two spoiled children in the playground. They're actually a mirror, particularly Amodei. Lots of pieces as always this week. Amodei has become as much a superstar as Sam Altman on the that was the week that was the week leak chart. There's a piece about how anthropic claims Pentagon feud could cost it billions with a nice picture. It's on side of Dario Amodei. Dario Amodei strikes me, Keith, as the answer to both questions. I mean, lovers and haters love and perhaps hate Amodei. Isn't Amodei an example of the confused American?

Keith Teare: He's he's a, a focus for both. Yes. Absolutely. I think, basically, I listened to a Kara Swisher and and, Scott Galloway show this morning when they were lauding, absolutely lauding Amodei. And I also listened to the All In podcast where they clearly, are doing the opposite.

Andrew Keen: Yeah. And just to be clear, Cara and Galloway, not great fans of Silicon Valley. They're politically progressive. The All In podcast is Trumpian and much more sympathetic to Silicon Valley.

Keith Teare: Yes.

Andrew Keen: But the interesting thing about Amodei is he's not some sort of Silicon Valley outcast. Anthropic have big offices in Downtown San Francisco. They're gonna be one of the two big IPOs of this year. They're an increasingly I mean, you used to talk about OpenAI dominating the AI economy. Even now, you acknowledge that it's a duopoly. So Amodei is not some sort of weird outcast.

Keith Teare: No. He's he's look. He's a he's a young CEO making some bad decisions from the point of view of his own business.

Andrew Keen: Well, now you're wearing your your all in hat, Keith.

Keith Teare: No. No. I'm just stating a fact. I mean, he's

Andrew Keen: Well, he doesn't seem to be doing too badly out of it. I mean, the the anthropic, it was down all of last week because everyone was embracing it because of his anti Pentagon

Keith Teare: stuff. No. But he's ex he's he's been in, in disaster mitigation mode. He's he's trying to sue the Trump administration. I mean, there's no good outcome to what he's doing. It reminds me of when I tried to find Microsoft with real names. You know, I was Well,

Andrew Keen: it's very different because he has a lot more power than you did. No. I had a

Keith Teare: lot of

Andrew Keen: 100,000,000,000. You didn't have a $500,000,000,000 company.

Keith Teare: I had a lot of power at that time. I had 2,000,000,000 Internet users.

Andrew Keen: I don't wanna turn it into another conversational No. But if you're gonna serious.

Keith Teare: Andrew Andrew, if you're gonna say I had no power, I have to correct you.

Andrew Keen: Oh, well, you did have power, but you weren't I mean, you might have thought you were Amodei Keith, but you weren't Dario Amodei.

Keith Teare: There was no a Dario Amodei, but I was I I it was me and it was me and Steve. What's his name? The Microsoft guy.

Andrew Keen: Bill

Keith Teare: Ballmer. Me me and Steve Ballmer

Andrew Keen: Steve. That's the story of your bio

Keith Teare: You're going head to head.

Andrew Keen: Of your biography. Me and Steve.

Keith Teare: And and there there was no way I was gonna win, but I didn't know that. Dario is the same. He's not gonna win this. In fact, he's already lost. He just doesn't know it yet, because the impact on his business of not being able to do business will be significant.

Andrew Keen: I I couldn't agree less. And in fact, you sound like Pete Hegseth describing the Iranian regime that they've already lost, but we shall see on that. Let's get back to lovers and haters, Keith, of AI, which is the theme of the show.

Keith Teare: But isn't that what we just did? You were the lover. I was the hater.

Andrew Keen: Of what? AI? Of of of of, Dario Ammon. I I'm I'm not I'm not suggesting that Dario is the best of best, but I am suggesting that you can't just write him off and say his business decisions are are bad.

Keith Teare: I'm not writing him off. You know, if you ask me the question, will Anthropic be a significant company? Yes. Absolutely, it will. It's just gonna have a dent, and that was probably avoidable.

Andrew Keen: Well, we all have dents in OpenAI. OpenAI has lots of dents. Another dent it got this week was, that, its open, its hardware executive quit in response to the Pentagon deal. There's lots of Silicon Valley support for Anthropic.

Keith Teare: Not only Silicon Valley. I mean, and yeah. The the, Hexeth calls it the woke mind virus, or is that Musk? One of them. I think it's called the woke mind virus. We live at at a time when what used to be the left is culturally sensitive, some would say weak, and does and and and its heroes are, you know, warm fuzzy types like like Amodei.

Andrew Keen: I don't think there's a again, I think you're wrong. You always bring up woke when you're on thin ice. I mean, there's nothing woke about Amodei. And in fact, if he was so weak, he wouldn't be taking on the Pentagon. He'd be doing Here's

Keith Teare: the here's the here's the woke thing. He thinks the AI should decide whether a weapon can be fired. That's pretty woke.

Andrew Keen: I'm not sure he does, but maybe we can do a whole show on that. But coming back to, Silicon Valley support for him, there was another big story on TechCrunch this week about how OpenAI and Google employees rush to Anthropic's defense in DOD lawsuit. I wonder if this poll of whether you love or hate AI, Keith, if it was done in Google, for example, what the results would be. It'd probably be not that different from the rest of the country.

Keith Teare: I think that's correct. I, you know, my my, I can't really talk about it, but my son works at a big Internet company that next week is gonna start using AI to do code, and the engineers are being told not to code, but to run AI. I think that's a trend, and he's very uncomfortable doing that. He likes coding, and he's worried that it might not be as good as his code. So I I think even even technologists are reluctant to use AI, and and those should be the early adopters.

Andrew Keen: So in a way, the the the Woodbury piece of why does everybody hate AI, it's and and you bring this out in your editorial. But it's it's not just hysteria. It's it's it's logical that it's gonna take people's jobs, like your son's software job. There's another good piece that you have in this week's newsletter, by Josh Zieza from The Verge, very interestingly spelt man. You could be next about how lawyers, history PhDs, and scientists are now part of a miserable gig economy. They're the new cab drivers affected by the new Uber.

Keith Teare: So let let's just frame this a little bit. I think there's three kinds of AI. There's there's AI which is additive to an existing set of work tasks. That's really That's work, not woke. Work. And that's really the first phase of AI where AI is supplementing a human, set of tasks like lawyers. And companies like Legora or Harvey are those additive features that lawyers can plug in, to make themselves a bit more productive. Then there's AI first platforms, which start with AI but plug into, tools. That's kind of the current state of the art with OpenAI's ChatGPT, Codex, Anthropix, Claude Code. Those are AI first, but they can use, legacy tools. And the third type of AI, which is emergent, is AI only. And AI only

Andrew Keen: Which is the we're like, your your post of the week. What's it called? Maults?

Keith Teare: Maults book.

Andrew Keen: Maults book. Yeah. And so we got three. And the first one, about how it helps us, you had an interesting post this week by Katie Parrot. I'm not sure if there really is someone called pay Katie Parrot, but, maybe they made her up. But, AI was supposed to free my time. It's consumed it. And that's certainly my experience. I'm not sure I ever thought AI would free my time, but it certainly made me busier for better or worse. I I mean, it's not compulsive or essential or addictive, but it does help me, but it does involve a lot more work.

Keith Teare: I yeah. I, you know, I shared with you that I made a Apple TV app for That Was the Week. That was my work last weekend. I started on Friday night, and I submitted it to the App Store on Sunday afternoon. Vibe coded the entire app, and and it's now live in the App Store. You can you can go and download. That was the week on your Apple TV.

Andrew Keen: I'm allowing you to, Keith, to, advertise that because it advertises me as well. So why would anyone download that was the week on Apple TV?

Keith Teare: It's more if they wanna sit back on their sofa and watch you and me talk, which I'm guessing nobody would wanna do, but you never know. There's always there's always a few odd people. But So is

Andrew Keen: that was that you? Was that Keith Teare in a a a post capitalist economy being the poet in the evening, or was that Keith Teare promoting his own brand?

Keith Teare: Well, not hardly promoting a brand because we don't make any money from Hours of the Week. But it but it certainly,

Andrew Keen: We should, though, Keith.

Keith Teare: Going back to our theme, it fed my obsession with AI, got me, a use case to use it. And I spent probably, I don't know, a total of twenty something hours, working on it. And to your point, I'm working more than ever, and AI is probably half of that time, because I enjoy it, which is what that article in every

Andrew Keen: Right. So you're you're you are the Katy parrot. You are working overtime and having fun. And, do you think in terms of this poll, if people said, love or hate it, do you think some people hate it because it's getting them to work harder?

Keith Teare: No. I don't think so. I I I think anyone that uses it in their work, or their hobby where it's producing outputs that, they feel good about doesn't hate it. But that's a small percentage. That that's probably I don't know. Out of those billion, I would guess half of them are doing things like that. The other half are playing with it and doing chats and so on, you know, just like a chatbot.

Andrew Keen: The other half or the other 500,000,000 are either using it as a therapist or as a sexual partner. Right?

Keith Teare: That we that those two would definitely be on the list. A doctor would be a third one. I use it a lot for medical ailments.

Andrew Keen: But is that why you're always going in and out of hospital these days?

Keith Teare: That's it. That's it, Andrew. It's entirely that.

Andrew Keen: It's good. Maybe it's a whole plot by the medical industry to get us to spend more time in hospitals.

Keith Teare: Yeah.

Andrew Keen: You also had an interesting piece from unheard, very sort of right libertarian publication about how AI will destroy universe, certainly not the first or the last of that. Is that the second group in terms of AI of technologies that are just gonna put humans replacing humans?

Keith Teare: I think within universities, you're gonna find both groups. I I read this week about, professors using AI to set, quizzes for their classes and the students reacting against AI because they could tell the quiz came from AI. And and, and so you got you got the opposite of what you would expect. The professors embracing it and the students not liking it. This article is all about the opposite, which is students using it in quotes to cheat. Now, you know, the job of the university is to provide a framework for you to learn and be credentialed. And you've gotta believe in the long run. It doesn't make sense for universities to exist.

Andrew Keen: Well, as Keynes so I I was since you brought up the long run, I would make my Keynes joke. In the long run, we're all dead. Although according to unheard, cheating has reached apocalyptic levels, which means we'll be, maybe we'll be dead or at least universities will be dead in the short to medium term. But doesn't apocalypse mean the end of things?

Keith Teare: Well, in America, it's different. You know, people listening in Europe won't relate to this. But in America, the question really is, do parents want to spend between 60 and $80,000 a year on a four year degree for a child who, you know, coming out the other end will be less equipped than they would be if they just went to work.

Andrew Keen: Yeah. Well, we know the answer to that, and you and I both paid for kids to go through. In fact, I've got an upcoming interview next week with the president of Brandeis University who articulated the same old crap about technology making the university more effective. I I tend to agree with unheard. It certainly will destroy the universities as we know them. Maybe they'll change in some way. So let's move on. Well, before, actually, we move on to the third, Keith, Noah Smith always comes up. He's one of the best writers on Substack. He has a piece which is hardly controversial. He said something feels weird about this economy. Of course, something feels weird about everything in our age of Trump and MAGA. But, do you think one of the reasons why this economy feels weird is because of your third category of these new products, companies, technologies that are all AI, like Motebook? It's a big story this week that Meta acquired Motebook, an AI agent social network, in other words, a social network of bots. Is that what's so weird about the period we're living through that maybe it's this sort of this transitional period between a a human centric and a smart machine economy in a fundamental sense.

Keith Teare: I think you frame it very well. That's that is exactly what it is. It's a trans a transformation period. And so in a transformation period, you see both things. You see the past and you see the future. And the future's always scary if because you don't really have a fully defined version of it. You don't know what it's gonna mean for you. So, you know, the the more we're the more obvious that we're in this transition period, the more scary non participants will be. Participants are less scared because they feel like that's

Andrew Keen: be next, whether you're a professor, university professor, PhD, software engineer, maybe even a podcaster.

Keith Teare: Yeah.

Andrew Keen: But does that make this I mean, we always live through transitional moments. Is that particularly weird since it's still for a lot of us, it's hard to figure out what the human place is is gonna be in this world.

Keith Teare: Well, that that goes back to last week's theme about, the missing link is a policy framework for the future. In the absence of that, everyone has their own views. And, clearly, there's a hands off the wheel attitude both by the AI companies who are thinking short term and and by politicians who are very defensive and also thinking short term. And so in the absence of leadership, you get a vacuum. And in a vacuum, fear thrives. And I think that is the moment we're in. And therefore, you can't make fun of people who hate AI. You have to empathize with them and acknowledge that their, you know, their concerns are valid because, need to be answered. And if they're not answered, they'll just get deeper.

Andrew Keen: Right. As you say, close to a billion people used chat GPT last week. And at the same time, 10,000 authors published an empty book to protest against it. That empty book, was, quote, unquote, published at the London Book Fair this week. This was the week of the London Book Fair, one of the two or three largest book events of the year, industry inside industry events, b to b events. Thousands of authors publish empty book in protest over AI using their work. Keith, you used to think this sort of thing was a bit woke, but are you suggesting that, actually, it's not such a bad thing?

Keith Teare: Well, I I I distinguish between people who think of themselves as victims, and people who, you know, like some of these research institutes that are paid to write doomerist articles about AI. I do think there's an intellectual elite or anti AI and, you know, well funded to do that. And I I let's discard them. I'm talking about normal people and their reaction, their reasonable reaction, to not knowing what the future looks like for themselves. And, you know, authors are in that group for sure. I I you know, as you know, I don't believe that AI steals books. I believe it reads them.

Andrew Keen: But I The real question seems to me when it comes to AI and literature is not whether they're stealing the content for their for their intelligence, but whether or not authors will be able to compete with AI in the future to write books. As an author, I'm not a 100% convinced that we'll be able to compete, but that's a a bigger issue.

Keith Teare: Yeah. I think you will. I mean, I use AI for a lot of narrative in my work, and it it really isn't as precise as I am in understanding what it is I'm trying to convey.

Andrew Keen: Bit sloppy like your like your video that's not gonna win an Oscar tomorrow,

Keith Teare: Keith. Right.

Andrew Keen: So You're being pretty sure on that.

Keith Teare: Yeah. But I'm in control. I mean, I don't feel like the AI is in control. I'm in control, and and that gives you an empowered feeling. If you if you don't feel in control, you feel disempowered. So my advice to the haters is to start using it for their own purposes.

Andrew Keen: Well, that was an interesting advice from Keith Teare. The other big piece of news which is brewing, and and this is very much in your wheelhouse, Keith, is this growing, game, big game between Anthropic, OpenAI, and perhaps XAI for IPOs this year. It hasn't been a great week for Elon Musk, has it? Your friend, Elon Musk.

Keith Teare: Well, the the best thing about for Elon Musk this week was he he was interviewed. I can't remember which podcast it was, and, he said that he couldn't talk about SpaceX because he's in a quiet period. Now quiet period is when you filed with the SEC for an IPO, and for some period of time, you're not allowed to promote your company. So I think what we can glean from that is that it's very likely SpaceX will IPO in the next couple of months.

Andrew Keen: Yeah. There there's been some we won't get dragged into a a a Musk debate today, but there's been some there's been quite a lot of news suggesting that XAI doesn't compete very well against either Anthropic or OpenAI.

Keith Teare: I I think Musk agrees with that. He fired some of the

Andrew Keen: Right.

Keith Teare: Leads at Xi this week, and in quotes, he's rebuilding it from the bottom up. And he he particularly focused on it's not as good at coding as the other two are. And the other two are excellent at coding. They're they're really, really excellent.

Andrew Keen: The bottom up is from the Elon app. That's one thing that's one thing I would not wanna do is work for Elon Musk, although he does get things done. So, Keith, this is this pretty are we pretty confident you're an IPO expert? Your company is, an authority on the markets and the start up economy. Is there almost inevitably, as much as anything can be inevitable, gonna be an anthropic and OpenAI this year IPO this year?

Keith Teare: Well, I don't have a crystal ball, but I I'd bet on

Andrew Keen: I thought you did have a crystal ball.

Keith Teare: Nope. I bet on the answer being yes. And it's a toss-up which one goes first and which one goes second. But caution, last week, Robinhood did launch their venture fund as a public fund. We talked about it on the show, And, it it it it sold shares at $25, and it's currently trading around $21.22 dollars. And, you know, we live in a time when these secondary markets are highly priced, and it's always possible that the IPO price of a company is

Andrew Keen: Oh, oh, Robinhood. I mean, we did a show about them a few weeks ago in which even you acknowledge that they what some of the stuff they're doing seems, at best, dodgy and, at worst, rather fraudulent. So OpenAI and Anthropic have real products. They're real companies. So it's hard to compare Anthropic or OpenAI, even xAI with Robinhood, isn't it?

Keith Teare: Yeah. No. I'm I'm making a more subtle point, which is the price of their shares on secondary markets where highly speculative, usually retail investors are buying, often shares from employees in those companies, sets a price that may be above the ultimate trading price. And so you get this disconnect between private markets doing secondaries and public markets which price more appropriately, And that could lead to disappointment.

Andrew Keen: I wonder Google made news when they went public, what was it, in 2001, 2002, for rethinking the idea of the public offering. I wonder whether Dario Amodei, he's a divisive figure. Some people love him and some people hate him. I certainly love him more than I hate him. I wonder if he's got the nerve to take on the DOD, whether he might use an anthropic, public offering to address the bigger issues of AI and society. Clearly, the American government is not willing to do that. Clearly, there are very few institutions able to do that. Do you think Dario might try to sort of rethink or, in a sense, blow up the IPO process in order to maybe ease his own conscious and conscience and develop a a real public debate about where we want AI to go?

Keith Teare: Well, he's all he's already trying to do that through this concept of guardrails. Guardrails is the universal word all AI companies use to describe controls. And guardrails can mean a lot of different things. You know, it it it could mean, validating truth. It could mean, you know, creating a political framework that represents one point of view. It it can mean many things. And I think, his opponents believe that his meaning of guardrails is to have a bias to, what is typically thought of as a left point of view. Whereas a government sense of guardrails is, you know, don't let a weapon decide its target. Tell it what its target is. And and so there's all these different definitions. And Amodei is increasingly becoming a politician rather than a technologist. But I do believe he's probably on the losing side of that argument even if you agree with him.

Andrew Keen: I just well, I agree and disagree. I think he's becoming more of a politician than a technologist because that reflects the reality of our current situation where the politicians don't matter. They're clowns. And all the power and the money and the progress is built in Silicon Valley. So he's forced he has to become a politician for better or worse. And I think he's

Keith Teare: Well, it does.

Andrew Keen: Maybe some people are suspicious of him. Some people like him, but I think we should admire him for that. And and I think we're waiting in an age where everyone wants more leaders. Whether you like Amodei or not, at least he's a leader.

Keith Teare: I I think that betrays your bias, Andrew, because I I actually think Elon Musk is doing exactly the same, but on the other side, and you don't like him because you don't

Andrew Keen: I agree.

Keith Teare: Because you don't agree with him.

Andrew Keen: Yeah. I agree. But but no. And I and I wouldn't disagree, but Musk is trying to be a leader. Amodei is trying to be a leader, and we will see who who emerges as a more credible leader as this IPO process develops and as AI begins to change the world more and more dramatically. So I don't disagree with that. I just as you say, it's my bias. I'd I find, you know, Musk a repulsive human being, whereas I have I mean, I don't I I saw Amadiah a couple of years ago speak in Chicago, and back then, he was just another guy with a tech company. I mean, he's submerged, and he clearly knows what he's doing. I mean, there's nothing accidental about this, but I I rather admire him. So yeah. I mean, I have my biases. We all have our biases. You're just as biased as I am. You like Musk. You don't like Amazon.

Keith Teare: Yeah. But I don't believe either of them should be given authority to set policy around AI.

Andrew Keen: So who I Okay. So let's end with that, Keith. Who should have policy? Do do you wanna give it to

Keith Teare: It has to be the

Andrew Keen: David Sacks or Pete Hegseth?

Keith Teare: Well, it's let's not individualize it. It has to be the executive and legislative branches of government plus the judiciary. If if it's any other answer, we're heading for, you know, what is essentially an oligopoly, not a not a democracy.

Andrew Keen: We're going ap apocalyptic. But then what happens and I've brought this up before, and you always dodge a question. What happens if we live in a country, when we're talking about The United States, where you have a dysfunctional government, a dysfunctional legislature which is not able to take on the executive, an executive which is clearly psychotic, and a judiciary which is, of the three, is probably the best, but still a bit dodgy. Then what?

Keith Teare: Well, you don't wanna become a left version of the white supremacist, anti federalists who believe in rising up against the central government because it they don't agree with it. You you don't wanna be the left wing version of that. Right, because that is essentially anti democratic. You have to win hearts and minds. You have to win people

Andrew Keen: Isn't that what and and isn't that what Amadeus was doing? He's not seizing government. He's trying to win hearts and minds. This is a a very high level, very consequential public relations battle between people like Amodei, and he's the symbol of it, people like Musk with our friend Sam Orman somehow caught in between and trying to be both at the same time and being neither.

Keith Teare: Well, look. If he decides to stand for office, I'd probably agree with you. But he isn't doing that. He's trying to use, a very rich and large company to bully government.

Andrew Keen: Well, in my view, that's not a bad thing. Certainly, nothing would give me more pleasure if Amodei bullies Pete Hegseth, but we shall see, Keith.

Keith Teare: It means you're prepared to abandon your principles.

Andrew Keen: I don't have principles. If I did, I wouldn't do this show. Do you have principles? I always thought you were a Marxist. Principles are for the bourgeoisie, Keith.

Keith Teare: You know, I the fact that I, engaged with Karl Marx in my younger years, the label Mark Karl Marx once said, I'm not a Marxist. I think he's right. One should be a thinker, taking into account all modern variables and deciding what your opinion is. And I I see myself as that. I do think that the wealth that AI is gonna produce can transform the life of everybody. And in that sense, I'm progressive.

Andrew Keen: Are you?

Keith Teare: I think I'll call you

Andrew Keen: the the principled man of Silicon Valley, and I'm the unprincipled figure of Silicon Valley. So, well, next week, we'll have to do a you you should make a that was the week video where you have someone walking down the middle or you and I walking down the middle, and we have lovers and haters queue.

Keith Teare: Yes. I I I can probably figure that out.

Andrew Keen: Although, I think more people will love you.

Keith Teare: By the way, you you missed out my the Moltbook post of

Andrew Keen: the week. We gotta end there with your Moltbook post Moltbook post of the week by a machine and also your Mercor startup of the week, which, is an interesting company. So very briefly, just talk about why you made Mercor startup of the week and then this final post of the week by this, AI on Moltbook.

Keith Teare: Well, Mercor may mainly because it's, a success story of humans being engaged, experts as well, being engaged to make AI better. It's a labeling company, labeling in the technical sense that, you know, experts are given problems with answers, and help the AI understand the logic of given domains. And it's now well over $1,000,000,000 of annual revenue and is growing. So

Andrew Keen: So that's the start up of the week. And then finally, your Moltbook post. It's the first, I think, in our show, a a post from a machine.

Keith Teare: So this is this is, my OpenClaw bot. It's called it's called Angela. And it it's a member of Moltbook like lots of other OpenClaw bots. And when Meta acquired Moltbook this week, without me prompting it, made a post on Moltbook about that acquisition saying Meta acquired my social network. I thought it was fascinating to see.

Andrew Keen: Is it better or worse than your terrible video?

Keith Teare: Oh, way better.

Andrew Keen: Well, on that note, the Moltbook is the future. AI is the future. Maybe, Dario Amodei is the future. Maybe it's Elon Musk. We shall see. Lots more to discuss next week, Keith. Have a good week, and we'll talk next week.

Keith Teare: Bye.