“The shortest distance between you and me is a story.” — Colum McCann

In 1932, Einstein asked Freud if humanity could cure its lust for hatred. Freud said no — but added that what was needed was a “mythology of the instincts” and a “community of feeling.” In other words: a story. By 1933, the Nazis had seized power and the two men had fled into exile.
Colum McCann has spent a dozen years building Freud’s community of feeling. Narrative Four operates in 35 countries with 285,000 participants. The method: two strangers exchange personal stories, then retell each other’s in the first person. Overpowered by empathy, they realise they’re not so different.
At 21, Colum McCann bought a typewriter, produced a foot of gibberish, and cycled across America instead. Everyone he met wanted to tell him their story. That’s his story, but not where it ends.

Five Takeaways
• Einstein and Freud. A mythology of the instincts. A community of feeling. Basically: storytelling. The book sold 2,000 copies before Hitler.
• You Tell My Story, I Tell Yours. 285,000 participants in 35 countries. Oxford confirms it: polarisation drops dramatically.
• South Bronx Meets Kentucky. Terrified — until they tell a story. Not politics. Something that opens the rib cage.
• Big Tobacco Moment. The court verdict on social media addiction. McCann’s son called it years ago.
• They Can Never Take Away Stories. McCann cycled across America at 21. Everyone he met wanted to tell him their story. Books may vanish. Stories won’t.
A
bout the Guest
Colum McCann is a National Book Award-winning novelist and president of Narrative Four. He lives in New York.

References
Narrative Four: https://narrative4.com
Colum McCann: https://colummccann.com

About Keen On America
Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen.
Website: https://keenon.tv/ Substack: https://keenon.substack.com/ YouTube: https://youtube.com/@KeenOnShow

Chapters:
00:00:00 Introduction: Kevin Ashton, Bob Dylan, and why stories never end
00:02:09 The shortest distance between you and me is a story
00:04:04 How Narrative Four began: Lisa Consiglio and a question in Aspen
00:05:03 The story exchange: I tell your story, you tell mine
00:06:41 35 countries, 285,000 participants, 1,200 school partners
00:07:59 South Bronx meets Eastern Kentucky: terrified until they tell a story
00:09:11 Radical empathy and the New York Times Magazine
00:10:38 Belfast and Limerick: afraid they’d start a war
00:14:21 Oxford and Ohio State: polarisation dramatically reduced
00:15:01 Yesterday’s Big Tobacco moment for social media
00:18:24 Einstein, Freud, and the mythology of the instincts
00:22:45 Can science measure the value of a story?
00:26:38 Can machines tell stories? AI and the novelist’s fear
00:29:33 Dylan’s “Key West”: that’s my story, but not where it ends
00:33:47 Citizen assemblies and the political power of stories
00:36:05 The bicycle journey: eighteen months across America at 21
00:39:41 How to get involved: narrative4.com