“It’s a dying gasp of white supremacy — and I say dying with a caveat, because that part depends on us.” — Sonali Kolhatkar

Yesterday, Wendy Lesser suggested that Americans can learn much from the anti-fascist history of Berlin in the 1930s. Today, Rising Up With Sonali host Sonali Kolhatkar is even more explicit. Yes, she argues in her new book, Breaking ICE, the 2020s are eerily similar to the 1930s, especially in what she calls “state terror” and “MAGA fascism.”

In 2023, Sonali Kolhatkar came on this show to talk about Rising Up, a book about the power of narrative. Three years later, her new book describes what she sees as the dying gasp of white supremacy. But to fully die, she argues, the community needs to rise up. So, like the perennial fascist threat, the ability to tell stories is a perpetual feature of politics. Thus Breaking ICE, Kolhatkar’s story of stories about community defense against MAGA fascism.

Five Takeaways

• Narrative Is Everything. The crackdown was built on stories — “poisoning the blood” is Hitlerian language — and the counternarrative is winning: public opinion has swung back. Trump overplayed his hand.

• A Dying Gasp — With a Caveat. Is this the 1930s? Yes, deliberately. But American fascism is also homegrown — and whether white supremacy’s gasp is really dying “depends on us.”

• The Mamdani Lesson. The not-Trump ad is the losing move. Voters could name what Mamdani was for: free buses, rent control, childcare. Flip the script — make politicians back our demands.

• What State Terror Looks Like. Curfew in LA, families ripped apart, 20,000 children stripped of lawyers against a Bush-signed law. The credo: solo el pueblo salva al pueblo — only the people can save the people.

• Detention Centers & Data Centers. One fight, she argues: both distract from the billionaires. And BLM didn’t fizzle — it was muzzled. Take four letters from police, and you’re left with ICE.

About Keen On America

Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen.

Website: https://keenon.tv/ Substack: https://keenon.substack.com/ YouTube: https://youtube.com/@KeenOnShow

Buy Breaking ICE: sevenstories.com

Chapters:

00:00:31 Introduction: the return of Sonali Kolhatkar
00:01:32 Narrative is everything: the stories that built the crackdown
00:03:57 The f-word: is this the 1930s?
00:06:23 A dying gasp of white supremacy — with a caveat
00:08:33 A coalition against ICE — and the danger of dilution
00:12:07 Has public opinion already shifted?
00:16:27 The Mamdani lesson: tell us what you’re for
00:19:57 The civil war inside the Democratic Party
00:21:38 Radical in America, centrist in Europe
00:22:53 Springsteen and the storytellers
00:24:26 What state terror looks like: curfew in Los Angeles
00:27:36 Inside the book: whistles, bullhorns, and nineteen voices
00:30:26 Solutions journalism: the free press under fire
00:33:13 Detention centers and data centers
00:36:22 Why movements wither: the lessons of Black Lives Matter