“We can survive. Can we thrive? That’s a different question.” — Corey Nathan
Robert Mueller died last week. Educated at Princeton, this Vietnam veteran won a Purple Heart and then enjoyed decades of public service under presidents of both parties. But the current president celebrated Mueller’s death. Such are the vagaries of American history.
In contrast, Corey Nathan — host of the Talking Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other podcast — isn’t celebrating Robert Mueller’s death. Nathan is from suburban northern Los Angeles County, very much at the heart of the (mythical?) American center. We discussed whether it’s possible to have a civic conversation anymore. Like so many Americans, Nathan falls back on what he calls “data.” Apparently 85% of Americans are what a recent study calls the “exhausted majority.” They see themselves as anything but extreme. All they want to do is take the kids to soccer practice, enjoy their barbecue, and talk to the neighbour without the conversation degenerating into verbal war.
Nathan’s own story offers hope. He grew up in an Orthodox Jewish family whose roots go back eight hundred years to what is now Chernihiv in Ukraine. In his late twenties, he became a born-again Christian. His father seriously considered sitting Shiva for him — the mourning ritual for a dead family member. But he valued his relationship with his son more than his theological convictions. Twenty-five years later, the conversations are richer than ever. If an Orthodox Jewish father and his born-again Christian son can keep talking, maybe even the current American President could sit Shiva for Robert Mueller.
Five Takeaways
• 85% Are the Exhausted Majority. Not extremes. They want the barbecue. The conflict entrepreneurs have the oxygen.
• Mueller Was Everything We Want in Our Kids. Public servant. Both parties. And the president said he was glad he died.
• ICE Came to the Church. A mom shot in her front seat. The suburbs aren’t untouched.
• His Father Almost Sat Shiva for Him. Orthodox Jew, born-again son. Twenty-five years later, the conversations are richer than ever.
• Survive vs. Thrive. Eight hundred years as strangers in a strange land. Democracy is how we thrive, not just survive.
About the Guest
Corey Nathan hosts Talking Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other. He lives in northern LA County.
References
Podcast: https://www.talkingpoliticsandreligion.com/
About Keen On America
Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen.
Website: https://keenon.tv/ Substack: https://keenon.substack.com/ YouTube: https://youtube.com/@KeenOnShow
Chapters:
00:00:31 Introduction: Robert Mueller dies, Trump says he’s glad
00:03:25 Mueller as American tragedy: David Frum and the centrist view
00:05:48 The exhausted majority: Hidden Tribes and the 85%
00:08:40 Is the left as bad as the right?
00:10:15 Braver Angels, shell-shock, and the people who just want a barbecue
00:13:53 If a foreigner landed in your suburb, would they notice anything wrong?
00:15:33 ICE at the neighbouring church. A mom shot in her front seat.
00:17:43 The secret sauce of talking without killing
00:20:26 Colum McCann, Narrative Four, and storytelling as civic repair
00:22:04 Does democracy really matter if you’ve got soccer practice?
00:24:04 Surviving vs. thriving: eight hundred years as strangers in a strange land
00:25:19 The First Amendment’s two halves: freedom of and freedom from
00:28:55 An Orthodox Jew becomes a born-again Christian. His father almost sits Shiva.
00:32:04 The revolutionary centre: Adrian Wooldridge and the lost genius of liberalism