Universal Basic Capitalism: The Next American Revolution Or More Trickle Down Economics?

00:00:31 Andrew Keen: Hello, everybody. It is Saturday, 06/04/2026.

00:00:37 Keith Teare: July 4, Andrew. July 4.

00:00:40 Andrew Keen: Oh, I think I'll start that one again. Hey. My, geography is, and that's not geography. What is it? What's the word? My,

00:00:51 Keith Teare: my knowledge. Yeah.

00:00:53 Andrew Keen: My for knowledge. My dates are bad. Okay. Ready?

00:00:56 Keith Teare: Yeah.

00:00:57 Andrew Keen: Hello, everybody. It is 07/04/2026. Celebration of you know what? I might actually put this interview out on July 5, but it's worth noting that we're speaking on the February, Foundation [unclear]. And, it's the day for our weekly tech roundup with my old friend Keith Teare. That Was The Week newsletter. And surprise, surprise, his editorial this week focuses on what he calls America the Beautiful. So happy anniversary, Keith. What's your I was thinking about this before we went live. What's your relationship with The United States? You came here quite late in your life, didn't you? Relatively late, certainly compared to me.

00:01:46 Keith Teare: Yeah. It just shows how old I am because I've actually been here thirty years now. I can't I came here initially in 1996 and, spent some time in New York, realized how superior American, investing landscape, let's say risk appetite was compared to The UK and determined that, living in The UK was for fools. So I moved here.

00:02:14 Andrew Keen: So what year?

00:02:15 Keith Teare: '96.

00:02:17 Andrew Keen: '96. So you've been so your life has really been pretty much split or relatively split between The UK and The US. How do you have, a US, passport?

00:02:27 Keith Teare: I do. I'm a I am a citizen.

00:02:30 Andrew Keen: And you have a very core identity as an entrepreneur, as a start up guy. Does that connect with your identity as an American? Do you think of yourself as both an American and a start up entrepreneur?

00:02:46 Keith Teare: Actually, I don't think of myself as an American. I mean, it's sort of it's one of the labels I have, and I embrace it. That's fine. But it's not a singular label. I'd say entrepreneur is way more core for me. And then there's probably other labels, like, I don't know. I think of myself as essentially, a critical thinker that wants change. That's my real core.

00:03:18 Andrew Keen: And that read Three Americans [unclear]. You have three, big American boys, and they're boy they're young men now. So you're adding to what you call the America the Beautiful. What's the editorial this week, Keith? What are you writing about? How are you combining this week in tech with, the July 4 celebrations?

00:03:44 Keith Teare: I think it's really, two things. It's firstly, it's an acknowledgment of America's success over the last two hundred and fifty years. America really symbolizes human growth, human progress economically, lifestyle wise, and in politics. I mean, the fact that we have Donald Trump as president voted for by more Americans than voted against him, symbolizes that the people still rule because most intellectuals, the last thing they wanted to see was Trump winning, but he won. And that's

00:04:24 Andrew Keen: I thought American intellectuals like Trump.

00:04:28 Keith Teare: There are some of it, aren't there?

00:04:30 Andrew Keen: Well, one American intellectual yourself is, shall we say, ambivalent. So on the one hand, your editorial talks about the achievements of America, abundance, wealth, creation, and freedom. But on the other hand, you're not some sort of MAGA fellow, are you, Keith? I mean, you recognize that not everything is perfect in the American Garden in July 2026.

00:04:54 Keith Teare: Well, not I mean, the pinnacle of capitalism is still flawed. Easy for me to say, but, look, capitalism at its best still has huge swathes of poor people who can barely eat. And so any idea that it's perfect, this idea of the perfect union is deeply flawed as a concept and always has been. And because I believe that, America has kind of peaked in world terms, it's only gonna get worse unless policy kicks in to make sure it doesn't. So we're at we're at a moment where the next two hundred and fifty years, there is a lot to play for, but it's not a foregone conclusion that it looks anything like the past hundred and fifty years if you look at it through American glasses.

00:05:54 Andrew Keen: And you're looking at it through American glasses. You're an American living in Palo Alto or you are half American at least, one of the pieces that I forwarded to you, which are included in the newsletter this week, and I found this astonishing, it's from The Wall Street Journal, which is not biased, although I think they would enjoy this sort of piece, is that The United States added 1,200 new millionaires a day last year, which is astonishing, especially when it's compared with the rest of the world. The Chinese only added a little over, 5,000,000 over the year. America, added 23 and a half million. Oh, no. These are countries with the most millionaires. So America has almost 24,000,000. China only has a little over five, and then we get down to Italy and Netherlands, South Korea, Australia, France, UK, all under 3,000,000. So it's really an astonishing statistic. I don't know what it tells us, but it certainly speaks of the prosperity amongst some for America.

00:06:53 Keith Teare: Well, look, the math underlying that is gross domestic product per capita. What is the average salary? And in America, it's not just salary, but income. It's around $85,000 a year per head. Obviously, it's highly skewed between rich and poor, but the average is $85,000 a year. China is on a 20 something thousand dollars a year. So just the math alone will tell you that someone who owns a house that's worth more than $1,000,000, which probably has to be the case for most of the middle class in on the coastal areas of America, California in particular, where there are

00:07:37 Andrew Keen: You can't even buy a hat in, where you live in Palo Alto for less than about 10,000,000, can you?

00:07:42 Keith Teare: Exactly. And there's fifty, sixty million people in California, if my memory serves you right. So those numbers really, are disguising, a highly skewed set of people that live either in California or New York and maybe Boston, that live in homes worth more than $1,000,000.

00:08:04 Andrew Keen: Your editorial this week focuses not on the past, but on the future. You ask in the editorial how to make America more prosperous, both literally, I think, and in symbolic, cultural, and perhaps, communal or, political terms. You refer to an interesting piece, by Scott Nolan, America's next two hundred and fifty years. He was writing as a guest in the Packy McCormick, blog. What's Nolan saying, and how does he connect the next two hundred and fifty years of America with tech?

00:08:44 Keith Teare: Well, Nolan focuses, very, very temporarily on energy. He draws the conclusion that the next hundred fifty years is predicated on abundant and inexpensive energy. And, and, you know, without that, everything that, AI prefigures, including, robotics, but also intelligence, can't develop. And so he, his answer to the scarcity of energy is to focus on, a nuclear renaissance in space, which seems to be coming consensus.

00:09:33 Andrew Keen: Well, that's Muskian, isn't it?

00:09:35 Keith Teare: It is Muskian. Yeah. Very Muskian. But Muskian

00:09:38 Andrew Keen: to be fair without the Musk. Musk. Distractions of Elon's bizarre politics.

00:09:45 Keith Teare: I don't think he's Well,

00:09:47 Andrew Keen: we're not having another Musk argument on such a nice day, Keith. Let's leave that one. I shouldn't have brought it up. My fault. I acknowledge it. Move on.

00:09:57 Keith Teare: Yeah. But, no. It is a good article, the next two fifty, because it predicates itself on what's happened since 1776 and then talks about the future. You know, the future requires innovation as did the past, when it was

00:10:15 Andrew Keen: the Yeah. I mean, it the thing with energy is really interesting, but I wonder whether there's a lot of unintended consequences. I mean, when America began fracking, which I think explains what their energy lead over the rest of the world, particularly in Europe, no one had even no one made the argument, even the most extreme frackers. They didn't make the argument in terms of AI. Can we be sure that in another fifty or a hundred or certainly two hundred and fifty years, energy will be so central? We might have fixed it entirely. Or maybe we'll be in a post AI age which energy becomes irrelevant.

00:10:52 Keith Teare: Yeah. I think it would be a fairly solid prediction to say that energy eventually will be close to free because we will figure out how to leverage the sun and also nuclear fusion. And when you do that, energy scales close to free. So I don't think energy will remain a bottleneck. I do strongly believe energy will be decentralized. That is to say, it won't require a national grid, which will be a huge innovation. Why? Because you'll be able to produce energy, locally very, very cheaply and distribute it locally without relying on a grid, on a global or national grid. So I don't see energy as a bottleneck, but I do see it as a challenge because those things I just described are still unsolved problems. There are really good people working on the man making progress, which is why you can predict they'll probably be successful. I wouldn't wanna put a timeline on it because that requires scientific breakthroughs, which are highly unpredictable.

00:12:05 Andrew Keen: Right. And that comes back to your notion of abundance. You and I have talked about that. You have your own manifesto in this editorial of five things, that America can do to make itself a better country, not in the next two hundred and fifty years, but certainly in the next twenty five or fifty associated with AI. Maybe you can mention some of these, some of these points, Keith.

00:12:31 Keith Teare: Yeah. Well, the context here is Sam Altman, in the Financial Times offering apparently offering the US government a 5% ownership stake for a sovereign wealth fund in OpenAI.

00:12:43 Andrew Keen: Right. He wrote the editorial in the FT on July 1, and everyone's picked up on this. The fact that, you know, there are two interpretations, the slippery Sam crowd, I guess, assumes he's just selling out to Donald Trump. Others get are a little more generous.

00:13:05 Keith Teare: Yeah. And now there's some context there as well. Sam Altman joined the Dario Amodei regulation camp this week as well, although he argued for a global regulator, not just national. National was his plan b, but he said he would prefer if it was global. And that, I believe, is triggered by the success of the Chinese model. Is it GLC two, g something c two, GLM two, 5.2. That's it. GLM 5.2, which, is a Frontier model by capability, but is open source and can be run on your own hardware. And there is a flood of American companies running towards using it and replacing OpenAI and Anthropic due to cost, and only using OpenAI and Anthropic for a small subset of highly difficult use cases. So you're gonna you we're moving to this, it's called, a token router concept in the enterprise where the, and, Palantir and NVIDIA.

00:14:21 Andrew Keen: Alex Karp just was on CNBC, making some strongly anti-Anthropic OpenAI remarks. Standing back a little bit, Keith, the headlines about OpenAI and talks to give Trump administration a 5% stake in the company. One of the things I've thought, and we've talked about this, in the last few months, is this convergence of the American and Chinese model. Is this more evidence Trump's interference or The US state's interference in Anthropic and OpenAI, Altman's willingness to allow the state to own and in some ways operate his company. Does that suggest that the Chinese and American models are actually becoming quite similar?

00:15:05 Keith Teare: Similar in some ways. But, honestly, I think the key driver here is Altman and Amodei being scared of open source models and wanting regulation. And so I think it's very self serving. The fact that they're offering 5%, which is a pitifully small amount, is indicative of the they're not really serious

00:15:23 Andrew Keen: about maybe their opening, offer. They may go a bit higher. There's a lot of money there. I mean, if they're worth trillions of dollars, 5% of 2 or 3,000,000,000,000 is a lot of money.

00:15:35 Keith Teare: Yeah. And I still think OpenAI is gonna be worth 10,000,000,000,000. So

00:15:38 Andrew Keen: You've said that. But is, is Sam beginning to become like Dario? You always used to love Sam and hate Dario. Now are they in the same camp?

00:15:47 Keith Teare: I think when it comes to wanting government protection against open source models, yeah, they're converging. They're very different in other ways, of course. My manifesto that you called it, I'm saying, and I'm here I'm echoing others, so it's not my idea. It should be 75%, not 5%.

00:16:06 Andrew Keen: Well, owner 75% of what? The government should own 75% of OpenAI?

00:16:12 Keith Teare: Of the shares. Yeah. Not the government, but the sovereign wealth fund, which I think is not the same as the government. I think it's very important it isn't the government. It's a sovereign wealth fund. And that sovereign wealth fund itself should be, owned by every citizen, every citizen. When you're born, you should get shares in it, and it should pay dividends every year based on, liquidity. And, you know, that's an American idea. Probably you need a global version of that idea if this is really gonna work. And my I

00:16:49 Andrew Keen: somehow doubt you'll get a global, and it actually brings more into context the increasing sensitivity over citizenship and immigration. Because if what you're calling for actually happened, let's just say that every citizen owns a little bit of seven 75% of OpenAI and Anthropic and all the big tech companies of the future, then being an American citizen would be a very lucrative business.

00:17:16 Keith Teare: You know, this they did something very similar in Norway. Norway has Yeah.

00:17:21 Andrew Keen: But Norway had all the natural resources.

00:17:26 Keith Teare: Don't know if there's any real difference between being a leader in AI and natural resources from a value point of view. I still I think that Yeah.

00:17:33 Andrew Keen: I wonder what Norway's policy is in terms of I'm guessing that Norway is a very, very hard place to immigrate to and certainly to get citizenship, but I don't know.

00:17:46 Keith Teare: I don't know the details on citizenship. I think immigration, like in most of Europe, is easier, especially if you're a refugee because they have very liberal

00:17:56 Andrew Keen: Right. Well, there are let's sidestep that one. So you've got 75 sovereign wealth fund. What else on your manifesto in The US to make America even greater in the next twenty years?

00:18:09 Keith Teare: The number two is the sovereign wealth fund has to be citizen owned, not government owned. It should pay dividends.

00:18:17 Andrew Keen: But how just before how would that work? How is it citizen owned? You mean everyone would vote in it? Everyone would be a shareholder? How does that work?

00:18:25 Keith Teare: You start with everyone's a shareholder, and it would be roughly divided. And every year, as new people are born, they get shares at birth. Just like already they're getting a thousand dollars at birth, so it's clearly doable. So, yeah, it's citizen owned. It would pay dividends. That's the key. So as, as the value grows, you would sell some shares every year to pay dividends from the from a central fund.

00:19:02 Andrew Keen: But to borrow some famous words of George Orwell, wouldn't some citizens be more equal than others in this, or would Sam Altman have I mean, obviously, he'd have his own ownership of OpenAI as an entrepreneur and founder, but would he have the same amount of stock as a person who cleans his home?

00:19:23 Keith Teare: In terms of allocations from the Sovereign Wealth Fund, it would only be equal as in everyone, every individual. So a family of five would get more shares than a family of two, but, everyone would get the same allocation. Of course in the rest of their life, they'd be unequal. They wouldn't this wouldn't overrule all their other wealth. So, it doesn't create some

00:19:48 Andrew Keen: So state stock ownership. So we got that, and then you also, just to add the other three, enable dividends to be paid to all shareholders, extend this idea beyond the citizens of a single country, which must seem very realistic. And then don't think nationalization. Think distribution of the legacy of human progress to all using a decentralized model, which sounds to me like you're having your cake and eating it.

00:20:20 Keith Teare: Well, it's innovative. And by the way, I am not making this isn't my idea. I'm actually pulling out of the ecosystem what is becoming, an interesting conversation, and I'm picking my favorites. And these are my favorites. These are the ones I would focus on. I agree with you. Number four is the hardest because I don't know how that would work. It would need the companies to decide that it's global, and the sovereign wealth fund would be something they would set up on behalf of everybody. That obviously is doable if they choose to do it. They're not looking like they want to do it. In fact, the philanthropic part of Sam Altman disappeared this week with his 5% offer. So I wouldn't be optimistic about the companies leading this, and I think the only way it is global is if the companies do lead it. So that's probably Yeah.

00:21:11 Andrew Keen: It's very unrealistic. I mean, one of the other things that struck me about today, I mean, of course, it's the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the American founding. But we're also six months into 2026, Keith. You and I have been doing a weekly tech show. And it was an interesting piece in The Atlantic about why everyone is suddenly talking about universal basic capital, which is what you're talking about in your manifesto. Astonishing, it's it seems to me that nobody was talking about that six months ago. It's astonishing how fast things have moved.

00:21:49 Keith Teare: Yeah. I well, it's a symptom of the fact that people are starting to believe that AI will automate eventually everything, over the next fifty years, let's say, certainly quite more quickly than two hundred and fifty years. And if that's true, you need to find a way to distribute, the means of life to people. And universal basic capital is being favored over universal basic income because it gives you ownership and therefore repeated, wealth.

00:22:24 Andrew Keen: Yeah. I mean, basically, in American language, it creates a nation of, investors rather than

00:22:32 Keith Teare: Welfare.

00:22:33 Andrew Keen: Welfare. What Reagan famously called welfare queens or kings or whatever else he

00:22:39 Keith Teare: Welfare is obviously a terrible idea. As a working class kid myself, who was on free school meals, there's nothing more demeaning than feeling like you're being given a handout.

00:22:52 Andrew Keen: Yeah. But what's the difference? It's just language. Whether you describe it as welfare or ownership, still the same thing.

00:22:58 Keith Teare: No. I think there's a massive difference, and I speak personally here. I mean, the difference between, people with more than you giving you something to help you versus you have a right as a citizen to a piece of the pie very different emotionally, psychologically, in terms of longevity and reproducibility. It's very, very different.

00:23:28 Andrew Keen: It's astonishing, though, how this idea of universal basic capital, which is a very radical idea, certainly in the context of free market American capitalism, has suddenly become fashionable. I wonder where it isn't fashionable. I'm not sure anyone's talking about it politically. I mean, Trump, as a very smart opportunist, might jump on it. I don't see anyone in the Democratic party jumping on it, which should be their natural area. I would have thought that I mean, you've talked about Bernie Sanders in the past and AOC. Is the left of the Democratic Party beginning to talk more openly about universal basic capital?

00:24:10 Keith Teare: The a little bit, but the problem is that their historical ideology gets in the way, and they frame it as welfare. They want the government to own this, and then they want welfare. They want politicians to decide how the wealth is spent. So they missed the whole distributed automatic part of this. And they have a centralized government owned vision. And that, obviously, that won't fly. So they're gonna shoot themselves.

00:24:39 Andrew Keen: When you say, obviously, it won't fly, you mean politically or in practice?

00:24:44 Keith Teare: Basically, it won't fly the you know? Do you that really is nationalization.

00:24:50 Andrew Keen: Well, then you have Hugo Chavez coming to America. And one would have expected the abundance wing of the Democratic party, the Ezra Klein, Derek Thompson wing, to jump on it too. But I don't see any of the politicians on that side of the party articulating I mean, it could be their core ideology in 2028, universal basic capital. I mean, I'm guessing that someone like Gavin Newsom, who is equally opportunistic politically as Donald Trump might jump on him.

00:25:23 Keith Teare: Here's the difficulty. Universal basic capital requires acknowledging that capitalism can create huge wealth. And, and of course, that is a narrative violation on the left. So the idea that you're pro capitalist, but everyone should own it, is a natural idea for the left, but they're stuck in their anti capitalism framing. So that seizing the means of production, through government diktat is their chosen method, and that just isn't a popular idea.

00:26:04 Andrew Keen: The is there then a profound incompatibility between the idea of universal basic capital and what the left of the Democratic Party, the Mamdanis of the world, describe as democratic socialism. Can you be a democratic socialist and be in favor of universal basic capital?

00:26:21 Keith Teare: I'm not super familiar with the democratic socialist, Andrew, so I don't wanna

00:26:27 Andrew Keen: Well, you know the general position of Mamdani and Sanders and AOC. I didn't see whether I'm not sure that I mean, a lot of these issues are just semantic.

00:26:38 Keith Teare: Well, no. Look. There in the history of ideas on the left, really post Lenin, the left is dominated by the idea of seizing the state through elections, using taxes and spending on, good things, as their core. And, and, and so any idea of, the withering away of the state, which is a left wing idea historically.

00:27:13 Andrew Keen: So what's the so I take your point, but what's the state's role in universal basic capital? They're still creating the rules.

00:27:21 Keith Teare: Actually, if you do it to a sovereign wealth fund, the state becomes less and less significant. Actually, the state shrinks. What happens is this sovereign wealth fund becomes a universal means of distributing wealth. And the actual state infrastructure, other than providing, services like roads or health or education, the state shrinks.

00:27:43 Andrew Keen: So in a weird way, the OpenAIs and Anthropics and Googles of the world become the state in this idea of universal basic

00:27:53 Keith Teare: No. No. The states that exist because there's still common things we all need. And

00:27:57 Andrew Keen: I mean, police, roads, defense,

00:27:59 Keith Teare: many things we still need. And presumably, the state would be a shareholder in this fund as well. It wouldn't all be going to people, to pay for some of those things. So the state doesn't go away, but it becomes an administrative state, and money is distributed through a sovereign wealth fund. It's actually interesting.

00:28:20 Andrew Keen: Yeah. And it's certainly something that we will be coming back to time and time again. You said that one of the reasons why universal basic capital is becoming so fashionable is because people are beginning to recognize how profound the AI changes will be. You link to a piece, by Erik Brynjolfsson of Stanford, formerly of MIT, old friend of the show, who has, who's one of the early economists to call the AI entry level jobs crisis. What's Brynjolfsson saying, and what are other economists saying about now this obvious impact of AI on work, on jobs?

00:29:03 Keith Teare: Well, he's at the center of quite a big debate this week, because there's a whole body of other stuff that came out that said companies using AI are hiring faster than companies who are not. And that is the opposite point that the use of AI creates opportunities that you have to hire for internally. And so there's a job boom in these AI companies. Both Amazon and Microsoft this week, announced plans to put up to 6,000 engineers on the front line, with customers to help them in implement AI, for example. And so the, there's a short term debate about, well, will AI really take jobs, or is it actually gonna create jobs? Now in a snapshot world, both things are true. And it there are more jobs being created around AI. That is definitely true. And the more AI you are, the more you're creating those jobs. That's also true. But if you stand back and look at five, ten, fifteen years, I think our friend at Stanford is more true, is more correct, which is that automation is going to accelerate. The things that you need a front end engineer for today will be done by agents tomorrow. And so the long run is, a declining employment for sure. And anyone who sees it differently hasn't looked at, you know, Musk's plans on robots. It is definitely declining employment, which doesn't have to be a bad thing. It can be a really good thing actually for humanity.

00:30:46 Andrew Keen: So what happens, Keith? And we've talked about this many times in the past. If everyone starts losing their jobs and this universal basic capital initiative gets implemented, what are people gonna do all day?

00:31:02 Keith Teare: Well, I tell you what, what I'm gonna do is you see this? This is my new camera. I am, I am a hobbyist with photography. In fact, there's a Nikon camera taking a picture of this Fuji camera. I'm gonna do whatever the F I want and be happy.

00:31:21 Andrew Keen: Well, one fellow cameraman sadly passed away this week, a good old friend of yours. Om Malik, one of the founding bloggers, very influential, Bobby [unclear], died early, fifty nine years old. I know you were quite impacted by his death and by what people have written. MG Siegler wrote a very nice obituary, and he got an obituary in the Times. Tell us remind us of Malik's place in the history of tech, Keith.

00:31:52 Keith Teare: Well, Om, was, actually a scientist. And he graduated from it at a top Indian university in, in science, chemistry, I think it was, and, became the voice of deep tech, especially wireless communications and telecoms in the late nineties, writing about deep tech. He was a very deep thinker, thoughtful, very generous person who became an expert in technology. In fact, if you go back and read everything he wrote since the nineties, it's a chronicle of what's happened in America over those years. He ended up creating GigaOm, which was his own branded site and hired quite a lot of people to work with him at the same time that TechCrunch existed. Him and Mike Arrington became good friends, competitors, but friends, TechCrunch. And they, co hosted the Crunchbase, the Crunchies, the award ceremony every year. And so, you know, I've known, throughout that entire period, as, I wouldn't say we were friends, but we were acquaintances. And we spent a wonderful few days in Iceland, on a photographer [as spoken]. He's a photographer.

00:33:17 Andrew Keen: He's Yeah. And in your editorial this week, you have some nice, a nice photograph of him and then one of yourself. What do you think looking back, you were around, as you say, you were one of the cofounders of TechCrunch, controversial TechCrunch, controversial cofounder with Mike Arrington. What do you think, Om's career and his work tell us about our current situation, the opportunities and the predicaments that we've talked about, the opportunity of universal basic capital, but the reality of more and more inequality and, in some ways, the impoverishment of general life and culture in The United States.

00:33:58 Keith Teare: You know, I don't wanna put words in his now deceased mouth, but, like a lot of Indian intellectuals, Om was, a liberal, I would say, with a capital l, and, humanist. And, often wrote critically about the extremes of capitalism and favorably about some of the remedies. You know, doing his own blog in a way was an interesting hybrid. He became a capitalist to be independent, and his independence led to freedom of choice for him. And until it didn't, there's a lot a long story about how Giga ended up going away. And then he joined True Ventures with Jon Callaghan and the other founders there. But he definitely prefigured. I would say there wouldn't be a Substack today unless there was a GigaOm and a TechCrunch. You know, there's a direct line from the New York Times to GigaOm and TechCrunch to Substack to That Was The Week. And

00:35:08 Andrew Keen: Well, thank you, Om. And without you Om, we wouldn't be here. Finally, Keith, there was an interesting piece in the Times this week by a former Biden, official, Jennifer Harris, about and the title was the generational force hollowing out the economy. She argues that, basically, all the AI money is impoverishing the rest of the economy. What would be the message of somebody like, as you say, a liberal, a progressive, to people like Harris? Not Kamala Harris, but Jennifer Harris and Yeah. Yeah. Other people who, many other progressives who are deeply suspicious and hostile to tech.

00:35:52 Keith Teare: Well, I think, they'd empathize, actually, without necessarily being as acerbic. It is true that money chases opportunity. And wherever the greatest opportunity is, the money will flow. It's a little bit like water going on the most natural path. So it isn't something you could stop. It's organic to the system we live in. And it does mean that there's less money for other things. Why? Because the other things are not as lucrative in the short term, and money seeks to replicate money. So I don't think she's describing anything badly. I think she's describing it quite well. I also think it would be wrong to be against it. The future is in recreating the infrastructure we live on. And money will flow there. And that recreated infrastructure probably lifts us all up. So, ultimately, it's a good thing even if there's pain in various places as a result of it.

00:37:02 Andrew Keen: Well, there you have it. Keith's take on not just the American two hundred and fiftieth year anniversary, but the half year anniversary of 2026 when it comes to tech. Lots more, I'm sure, Keith, in the next six months on universal basic capital and the impact of AI on jobs and prosperity. Happy two hundred and fiftieth, Keith. You're gonna be, celebrating this evening or this afternoon with hot dogs and fireworks, or you're gonna be doing something else?

00:37:30 Keith Teare: I think, yeah, fish and chips and the World Cup.

00:37:33 Andrew Keen: You get thrown out of the country. Don't you know that the rebellion was against the British? No.

00:37:37 Keith Teare: It was the king, not the British. I'm against the king too. I'm with the Americans on that one.